Tuesday, May 7, 2013

President vs Prophet

I think, because once again this is my journey too, a major part of removing the veil of unbelief is understanding correct doctrine. Sound doctrine. Speaking of doctrine, we shouldn't be in the business of conflating doctrine with Church policy, procedure and or tradition. I happen to think the issue of president vs prophet is critically important.

In the Church we have a president who is currently Thomas S. Monson. According to the scriptures President Monson is the presiding high priest.


65 Wherefore, it must needs be that one be appointed of the High Priesthood to preside over the priesthood, and he shall be called President of the High Priesthood of the Church;

66 Or, in other words, the Presiding High Priest over the High Priesthood of the Church.

Along with his two counselors they make up the "three presiding high priests". We learn through the scriptures that these men are "chosen by the body" and are "upheld by the confidence, faith, and prayer of the Church".

22 Of the Melchizedek Priesthood, three Presiding High Priests, chosen by the body, appointed and ordained to that office, and upheld by the confidence, faith, and prayer of the church, form a quorum of the Presidency of the Church.

So far so good. We have that in the Church today. The Church is led by these men today. Some of the issues that arise start with how they are appointed. Members of the Church or the "body" have no say in whom are chosen to lead yet they are to be chosen, according to scripture, by this same "body". If you ask any "faithful" latter day saint brother or sister the answer to succession is almost always seniority. I suppose they are correct but the procedure isn't the one the Lord prescribed. Is there danger in this? Did the procedure change? Obviously it did. Did the change come from the Lord? Is the Lord in the business of altering His word or does He vary?(I will touch on this in a future post)

So we should now understand that the "body" is suppose to choose the three presiding high priests. I suppose we could argue who the "body" comprises. Some say it is the twelve apostles but they aren't mentioned in section 107 until after verse 22. Others say the "body" comprises the priesthood. This could be so but as a priesthood holder I've never been asked to submit whom I think should preside. Let me add that we do, as saints, sustain our leaders. This should be separate from choosing them.

If we are choosing the presidency of the Church incorrectly, is there anything else we could be getting wrong? Let's consider 91 - 92 of section 107:

91 And again, the duty of the President of the office of the High Priesthood is to preside over the whole church, and to be like unto Moses—

92 Behold, here is wisdom; yea, to be a seer, a revelator, a translator, and a prophet, having all the gifts of God which he bestows upon the head of the church.

The president of the Church should be "like unto Moses". Is the Lord saying here that we should choose someone "like unto Moses" or that whomever we choose will become "like unto Moses"? Is there a distinction? Is it important and why?  Does every president of the Church have the gifts that follow seers, revelators, translators, and prophets?

I don't believe that a man becomes a prophet honorarily because he is now president of the Church. Brigham Young had these interesting things to say:

"[After putting the motion for himself to be sustained as 'Prophet, Seer, and Revelator,' the President remarked:] I will say that I never dictated the latter part of that sentence. I will make the remark, because those words in that connection always made feel as though I am called more than I am deserving of. I am Brigham Young, an Apostle of Joseph Smith, and also of Jesus Christ. If I have been profitable to these people, I am glad of it. The brethren call me so; and if it be so, I am glad." (The Complete Discourses of Brigham Young, Vol. 3, p. 1347.)  (emphasis added by me)

"I am not going to interpret dreams; for I don't profess to be such a Prophet as were Joseph Smith and Daniel; but I am a Yankee guesser[.]" (The Complete Discourses of Brigham Young, Vol. 3, p. 1306.)

"I do not want to skip Joseph, Peter, Jesus, Moses and go to my Father in Heaven. All I ask for is to be guided by the spirit of Joseph, then let others be governed by their head, or priesthood. Joseph enjoyed the priviliges which I never thought I had. Joseph was called of God. I was called of Joseph." (The Complete Discourses of Brigham Young, Vol. 2, p. 1108.)

Brigham Young was honest. He didn't here proclaim to have those gifts when being sustained as the president of the Church. Do not forget that he was an apostle before this. What does this mean? It means, the point I've been trying to make, that just because a man is called to preside in the Church does not make him a prophet like Joseph Smith and like prophets before him. I think there is a lot of danger believing that they are prophets who speak with the Lord. Why? Because men, in their weakness, mingle their philosophies with Christ's doctrine. I am not asserting that these men are doing so intentionally or unintentionally but I recognize the ability of them to do so. If we believe these men to be prophets, when they are not nor have claimed to be, is it possible for them to teach incorrect doctrine or lull us away? I want to iterate that I am not asserting that the brethren are actively trying to lead us away. If they themselves haven't claimed to have these gifts why should I assume they have them? Why would I place upon them such an extravagant thing as to have beheld Jesus Christ and to have had visions and dreams? I think that is wrong and damaging but most all of the members believe it because we sustain them as such. With that said, I do believe some of these men are prophets like those of old.

We know from the scriptures that any man or woman with the "testimony of Jesus" has the "spirit of prophecy". They are prophets. They may not be called to do as Moses did but they receive Christ in this life. This is the correct doctrine that many people have confused. Those who conversed with our Lord in the flesh become like those of old who are redeemed from the fall. We must not assume those called as prophets within the Church have experienced these same things. It is unfair. Rather, we should recognize them as the good men they are and together we should strive to have our own personal revelations.

In summary, it is a dangerous road when one, especially millions, assumes a man is a prophet when the scriptures do not indicate such. Once again, a real prophet is visited by the Lord in the flesh and testifies of Him because he "has seen Him."

Addendum:
If you search the Doctrine and Covenants you will quickly find that there is no prophet calling in the Church. A man is either a prophet or he is not. No Church calling will make a man a prophet.

Addendum Part Two:

Doctrine and Covenants 107:   

82 And inasmuch as a President of the High Priesthood shall transgress, he shall be had in remembrance before the common council of the church, who shall be assisted by twelve counselors of the High Priesthood;

83 And their decision upon his head shall be an end of controversy concerning him.
  
84 Thus, none shall be exempted from the justice and the laws of God, that all things may be done in order and in solemnity before him, according to truth and righteousness.

Members regularly state that the prophet cannot lead the Church astray yet the Lord has a clause if the president happens to transgress. What is the Lord telling us here? That man, even the president of the Church, can falter so much to require a council? Does the quote below that is often quoted to support traditions of men by President Woodruff contradict what the Lord has said? Are we taking President Woodruff out of context?

"The Lord will never permit me or any other man who stands as President of this Church to lead you astray. It is not in the programme. It is not in the mind of God. If I were to attempt that, the Lord would remove me out of my place, and so He will any other man who attempts to lead the children of men astray from the oracles of God and from their duty."

I'll end with 1 Kings 13: 

And the king said unto the man of God, Come home with me, and refresh thyself, and I will give thee a reward.

And the man of God said unto the king, If thou wilt give me half thine house, I will not go in with thee, neither will I eat bread nor drink water in this place:

For so was it charged me by the word of the Lord, saying, Eat no bread, nor drink water, nor turn again by the same way that thou camest.
 
10 So he went another way, and returned not by the way that he came to Beth-el.
  
11 ¶Now there dwelt an old prophet in Beth-el; and his sons came and told him all the works that the man of God had done that day in Beth-el: the words which he had spoken unto the king, them they told also to their father.

 12 And their father said unto them, What way went he? For his sons had seen what way the man of God went, which came from Judah.
  
13 And he said unto his sons, Saddle me the ass. So they saddled him the ass: and he rode thereon,

 14 And went after the man of God, and found him sitting under an oak: and he said unto him, Art thou the man of God that camest from Judah? And he said, I am.
  
15 Then he said unto him, Come home with me, and eat bread.
  
16 And he said, I may not return with thee, nor go in with thee: neither will I eat bread nor drink water with thee in this place:
  
17 For it was said to me by the word of the Lord, Thou shalt eat no bread nor drink water there, nor turn again to go by the way that thou camest.
  
18 He said unto him, I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the Lord, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water. But he lied unto him.
  
19 So he went back with him, and did eat bread in his house, and drank water.
  
20 ¶And it came to pass, as they sat at the table, that the word of the Lord came unto the prophet that brought him back:
  
21 And he cried unto the man of God that came from Judah, saying, Thus saith the Lord, Forasmuch as thou hast disobeyed the mouth of the Lord, and hast not kept the commandment which the Lord thy God commanded thee,
  
22 But camest back, and hast eaten bread and drunk water in the place, of the which the Lord did say to thee, Eat no bread, and drink no water; thy carcase shall not come unto the sepulchre of thy fathers.
  
23 ¶And it came to pass, after he had eaten bread, and after he had drunk, that he saddled for him the ass, to wit, for the prophet whom he had brought back.

24 And when he was gone, a lion met him by the way, and slew him: and his carcase was cast in the way, and the ass stood by it, the lion also stood by the carcase.
  
25 And, behold, men passed by, and saw the carcase cast in the way, and the lion standing by the carcase: and they came and told it in the city where the old prophet dwelt.

26 And when the prophet that brought him back from the way heard thereof, he said, It is the man of God, who was disobedient unto the word of the Lord: therefore the Lord hath delivered him unto the lion, which hath torn him, and slain him, according to the word of the Lord, which he spake unto him.

27 And he spake to his sons, saying, Saddle me the ass. And they saddled him.
  
28 And he went and found his carcase cast in the way, and the ass and the lion standing by the carcase: the lion had not eaten the carcase, nor torn the ass.

29 And the prophet took up the carcase of the man of God, and laid it upon the ass, and brought it back: and the old prophet came to the city, to mourn and to bury him. 

30 And he laid his carcase in his own grave; and they mourned over him, saying, Alas, my brother!




      









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